Friday, January 09, 2009

2204 The Before-Mommy

Friday, January 9, 2009

[This is all absolutely true.]

In about 1978, when Daughter was 3 years old, she was very verbal. She had been speaking in three and four word sentences at 9 months, and then when she realized no one but her Mommy could understand her ("yellow" was "eeoo", for example), she stopped. When she started up again at 2, she had a huge vocabulary, near perfect pronunciation, structure, and grammar.

I'd had three miscarriages and a stillbirth before her. I was afraid she'd be all I'd have (I was 31 when she was born), so she was a 100% natural birth, and I was very involved with her. She'd never at that point even been left with a sitter. She had never been exposed to anything that I wasn't aware of. She had been enrolled in a thrice-weekly program for exceptional children starting at 14 months, but even there I knew about everything she saw and did.

And I know that she'd never seen or heard of most of the things she told me about having seen and experienced before coming to live with me.

I was a bit surprised when one day I was starting supper, and she asked what we were having, and when I said "sausage", she said, "Oooo, I like sausage. My before-Mommy used to make that all the time."

Me: "Your before-Mommy? What before-Mommy?"
She: "The Mommy I had before I came to you."
Me: "You had a Mommy before me?"
She: (Impatiently) "Yes!" (Frustrated) "The Mommy I had before I died and came to you!"
Me: "Oh. You had a Mommy you lived with, and then you died, and then you came to me?"
She rolled her eyes, stamped her foot, and went off to play with the dog.

Now, keep in mind, she's three. This is the same kid who, more than a year later, burst into tears when she discovered I had once been a child - "But whooooo took care of meeeee when yooooooou were a baby?" I told her Gramma took care of both of us, and that satisfied her. To a child of three, what is now always was and always will be. So the idea of a before, especially where Mommy is concerned, is beyond inconceivable.)

The next time Before-Mommy came up I was putting something in the oven, and she said, "My before-Mommy would really like that oven."

Me: "She didn't have an oven?"
She: "Yes, she had one, but not like that."
Me: "What was hers like?"
She: "It wasn't iron. It was like clay, and it was shaped like this (arms swinging in a large high mound), and you put the bread in a hole here (shoving motion about chin high), and the fire goes in here (walking around to the other "side" and motioning low). Vegetables and stuff go in here (back around to the "front", motioning to a lower hole). No doors. Yours is a lot nicer. You don't have to build a fire."

Over the next year and a half we had many strange conversations. They were always initiated by her, always in quiet moments, usually when we were alone, but occasionally when her father was nearby and could hear. (Thank goodness, a witness!)

During these conversations, she looked and sounded older. Her voice was lower. Her whole aspect changed. She moved differently, tighter, commented on things a child her age wouldn't normally notice, drew conclusions beyond her age. Sat quietly and conversed.

I also quickly learned that when the conversation was over, it was over. Once she wandered away, if I went to her and asked about something she had just said, she didn't know what I was talking about. It was like she had "spells" when she remembered Before-Mommy, but outside those spells, when the spell ended, Before-Mommy not only didn't exist, Daughter had no memory of having talked about her! I pushed a bit once, and she burst into tears because she thought I was telling her she was adopted. I learned to move very gently, to get as much information as I could at her pace, on every occasion offered, before the spell ended.

I also learned that I couldn't ask a "wild duck" question. I could probe deeper into whatever she was talking about, could ask questions about whatever her chosen topic was, but if I tried to go beyond that, the discussion was over. For example, I never found out what her name was, and that was driving me nuts. Still does. But the moment to ask never came.

The following is what she told me, in bits and pieces, usually kicked off by something we were doing, over the next year plus. It was completely consistent, and the details were always the same no matter from what direction they were approached.

She, her mother, her older brother, and "Old-Pa" lived in a house in the mountains. It was all mountainy. Pointy. Lots of big wide fields, all around. (There was apparently no father? When I asked about a father, she looked like she didn't understand.) "Old-Pa" (the grandfather, I suspect) couldn't walk. He sat in a chair with wheels. (Like a wheelchair, like in the hospital?) No, a chair like in the kitchen, but with wheels on the bottom. Brother put the wheels on it. Brother took care of their "little camels" in the fields. (Little camels? I finally figured out from her descriptions that they were probably alpacas. That's very interesting, because llamas, alpacas, and vicunas are in fact related to camels, and in this life she had been exposed only to camels, so that's the word she used?) Her mother wore a man's big hat, and big skirts, "not pants, like you".

When Old-Pa died, the three of them moved into town. Their "house" was one large room, and all the houses were attached around in a square. The oven (which some ten years later I discovered was a perfect description of a clay beehive oven) was in the middle of the room. There was a door and a window with shutters in front of the house, and a door in the back that opened to a courtyard that all the houses used. She had been allowed to keep two little camels when they left the mountain (because she cried for them), and they were kept in the courtyard during the day (but they could go in and out), and in the house at night. Water came from a well down the street. That was her job, to go get water. Her mother didn't wear the man's hat any more.

There was something about her having injured her leg, and she had to use "crunches" for a little while, but I don't remember. She had a doll her mother had made for her.

Their house was really pretty, because it had painted vines and flowers and all kinds of stuff on the outside, all around the doors and the window. Her brother lived with them for a little while, then he went away to go to school to be a doctor. He bought an old car so he could come visit them a lot, but the car spent most of its time "in the car hoppital", so it wasn't much good.

She: "And then I got sick and died."
Me: "Do you know what made you sick?"
She: "No. I couldn't breathe, I think."
Me: "How old were you then?"
She: "Twelve. My brother came home, but he couldn't fix me. Then I died."
Me: (Treading very carefully) "And then what happened?"
She: (Nonchalantly) "I went to the waiting place."
Me: "Waiting place? What's it like there?"
She: "Oh, you know (No! I don't!), just a waiting place." (Waving her hand dismissively.)
Me: "What were you waiting for?"
She "Time to get born."
Me: "How long did you wait?"
She: (Rolling eyes, silly mommy) "There's no clocks there! I just waited 'til it was time, then I came to you."
Me: "How did you know when it was time?"
She: (Frustrated) "Because it was time to get borned!"
Me: "Why me?"
She: (Super frustrated) "Because that's! when! it was time!"
Spell over.

That was our last Before conversation. She remembers absolutely none of it, any of it.

I believe every word of it.

I think that's why she was able to tell me, because I listened and accepted, and didn't turn her off or tell her she was silly the first time she said something outrageous. I suspect many children with old souls come through with memories, but there's a small window when they are able to talk about them, that short period between *when they have the words* and *when the before fades*. And if they are discouraged, if the right now reality is imposed and insisted upon, the window slams closed.
.

16 comments:

Donna in Alabama said...

That is fascinating, reading this had me mesmerized! I believe this could be absolutely true.

My WV is paste.

Anonymous said...

I agree with your assessment that someone has to have someone to listen and accept what they say for the thought to be available.

Thank you for posting. I have heard of similar experiences, but your account makes it seem as if I were there with the two of you.

Thanks.

Wondering Woman said...

I have vague memories of thoughts as a child that were completely out of the realm of any experience I could have had. It's like a puff of smoke trying to grab onto one of the memories now. There are several fascinating books about children having conversations similiar to your daughter's. I love the little rips in the fabric that let another of life's mysteries peek through.

Becs said...

Once I babysat my two (now ex-) nieces. Katherine was six. Elizabeth was two and not speaking anything I can understand.

Finally, I said, "Katherine, can you understand what Elizabeth is saying?"

Katherine told me her sister wanted her doll, her blanket, and her bottle. Installed with these on the couch, Elizabeth finally fell asleep.

BTW, I absolutely believe this. Have you ever read the "Seth" books?

~~Silk said...

Seth books? I don't know. In the eighties I read maybe two books on past-lives and children, and they annoyed me because they were so wowwie-gee, they pushed the kids, and they seemed to read a lot into it. So I didn't look any further. I disliked the idea of sensationalizing it, or of telling the kids what they said, so they could say it again.

If there anything to be learned from the experience, it's that you have to not just talk to little kids, but listen with a mind they know is open. That's all.

Stephen Ellis said...

Thanks for writing. I think the manner in which you told the story lends a degree of credence to it that might, otherwise, be missing. In the course of my paranormal research, I've heard several other incidents similar to the one you wrote about (although none were presented as well as yours). In my blog "Explaininglifesmysteries.blogspot.com", I discuss some of these (and similar) happenings, all of which have convinced me (as a supposedly, unbiased, "hard-facts only" Judge) that our "journey" does not end when our bodies stop breathing. We know (and have photographic proof) that our auras do not cease to exist when we die. Of course, what I call an "aura" may be termed as a "spirit", an "immortal soul" or even "the human mind" by others. There will never be scientific proof of previous lives, but there is so much evidence out there pointing to it that it boggles my mind how quickly it is dismissed by most people; people who, otherwise, are intelligent, thoughtful and fact-seeking.

I can hardly wait to read of some of your other experiences.

Best, Steve Ellis

Becs said...

The "Seth" books by (I think) Jane Roberts talk about the world between and what souls do when they're waiting to be re-born, among many many other fascinating things. The "channeling" may be so much hooey, but I think there's a truth in there.

the queen said...

Heidi. It's Heidi. It has all the elements.

the queen said...

Don't believe me?
Go here:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=heidi+book&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi&oi=property_suggestions&resnum=0&ct=property-revision&cd=1

~~Silk said...

Wow, Your Highness, that's pretty cool! On the surface, anyway. Unfortunately, at three, she knew all about goats. Our local plant nursery had goats, and she'd seen them at the petting zoos. She wouldn't have called her beasts baby camels if they were goats.

When she first started, I had been thinking maybe Tibet, but as details piled up, I ended up with the Andes. The Alps just didn't fit.

However, and this is weird, her "now" name has two elements in common with the name "Heidi". I had a fifth grade friend in Ottawa with an unusual (at the time) name I had never forgotten, and that's what I named her. (Reflects slightly her Welsh heritage, too.) Maybe that's why she "came to" me - she liked the name. (Although in now time, she hates it.)

Oh, and I'm pretty certain she'd not yet been exposed to Heidi. (Did Heidi have a mother? I forget.)

the queen said...

Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize there were camels in the Andes.

Next time Im in a book store I'm thumbing through the Little Golden Book Heidi. Even if a friend had it the believers in Cryptomnesia would say her subconsiois stored it.

~~Silk said...

Yeah, camels in the Andes. Llamas, alpacas, and vicunas are relatives of the camel. Shave 'em down, and you can see it in the body shape, feet, legs, and especially the neck and face. She said her Before-Mommy made "knitting stuff" (yarn?) out of the "little camel's fur".

Even more important than the story she told was the change in her when she talked about it. She often told me ordinary stories, either made up or versions of story books. This was very different. Her manner was much more mature, and it was always kicked off by something we were doing, that reminded her of "before".

Also significant was that when she dropped the manner, when the "spell" was over, even moments later she had no memory of what she had told me.

It was about 18 months worth of chats, and the story never changed.

There's a lot I left out, like the descriptions of furniture, clothing, neighbors, food, that the village well was replaced by a community faucet (men came to do it) somewhere along the line. And Brother (whom she described as much older than herself) went to school, but apparently she didn't.

the queen said...

Okay, well then that is weird. What does daughter say about it now? She should have been my Moms daughter - I greatly disappointed her by never even having an imginary friend.

~~Silk said...

Even then, within minutes of coming out of the (what looked like an) altered state and talking about Before-Mommy, she had no memory of having mentioned her until the next "spell". When she was in her teens I told her about it, and if it hadn't been for her father's backing me up, that yes, she did talk about it, I don't think she would have believed me.

Speaking of imaginary friends, did I ever tell y'all about the goose?

Sydney said...

This was a fascinating story -- I have never heard of a child having several of these conversations over time. I was rivited. It added to it that she had no memory of it later. Glad her dad told her too. Now that she's an adult, has she ever tried to research it, or care to?

I wonder if from her descriptions of things that you could guess as to a time frame, since she could not tell you about the waiting place. And if she were 13 at the time she died, that might account for the more mature tone to her spells? Really fascinating. THanks for sharing with us!

I was thinking Peru/Andes myself... the oven, the mother with the hat and skirts...

Becs, I did read the Seth books, waaay back when I was 13 or 15 or so. T

Jeffrey said...

I just came across your story and it's fascinating. I believe it. A short similar thing happened to me with a younger cousin. When he was born (I was about 17) I felt this overwhelming connection to him and often took him out to do fun things together. Around 3 or 4 he started making odd comments about the nature of good and evil and also that he would take me places next time when I get little again and he's big. I asked him if he remembered doing that before and he said he did so I asked what it was like when I was little. He replied "You were a good baby and you were such a cute little thing! Do you remember?" We didn't get very many moments like that but it struck me as odd and somehow gave me hope about the next life.